Ambrosius wrong about commuting

Interesting info you shared. Take a look at the stream of comments on-line following the Ambrosius article. You might find them worthwhile.

I welcome your response to my op-ed Ms. Ziegler. Nowhere in my op-ed did I make the claim that several individuals will not be willing to make the long commute south to Baltimore from York. In fact, the title of my article—“City unlikely to attract Baltimoreans”—was the York Daily Record’s choice, not my own. I called my piece “Consultants won’t solve city’s woes.” It was my intention to address Tracy Gosson’s advice that York market to DC residents. She did not suggest York market to Baltimoreans—that was an addition to her plan by the YDR editorial staff when they authored an editorial on her suggestion. Gosson did not suggest this, I infer, because she would not want to reverse Baltimore’s stable population growth she worked so hard to develop and maintain.

However, I must note that your knowledge of a few friends and family deciding to move to York City and work in Baltimore is not the kind of scientific evidence that a city can bank its future on. If you can document hundreds or thousands of such homeowners, I will concede that the city is indeed attracting Baltimoreans. Even if this is the case, there is no way the city will attract Washingtonians by the masses. I once made the three hour commute to DC when I worked at the US Department of Labor—and believe me, it is brutal leaving your home before 5am and getting home past 9pm. The housing cost savings will not compensate for the combination of high travel costs (gas plus car wear-and-tear) and the opportunity costs of wasting so much time in traffic (probably the greater of the two). I did so only to get much-needed job experience, and would not do it again. It is a documented fact that most people who live in cities do so to avoid long commutes. Outer ring housing is cheaper so that suburban workers are compensated for commuting into the city (this is assuming a world without urban decline—not true in York or most non-megacities). I also made the daily commute south to Baltimore for two years while a Master’s student at Johns Hopkins University. It wasn’t so bad (I got off 83 north of downtown and avoided the worst traffic) but I wouldn’t recommend it either.

My central argument is that York needs to develop its postindustrial economy to better attract workers to the city. Employers may even welcome moving to York since their employees may lead happier lives with cheaper housing costs and thus more disposable income. I think we can all agree that people will not come en masse without local jobs. And based on my experience as a community organizer in Baltimore, neighborhoods cannot revitalize themselves and combat crime and grime without law-abiding homeowners (vacant buildings cannot call 911, etc.). You cannot fence off whole neighborhoods and destroy crime blitzkrieg-style. It simply migrates to other neighborhoods in the city. If York can attract the kinds of residents that stand up for their neighborhoods, crime will migrate out of the city to other cities. I applaud newcomers willing to settle in York City and renovate older, cheaper housing units—especially those lucky enough to find good-paying local employment in the city. This is more desirable for the city than having people commute long distances anyway.

In conclusion, I do not question York’s welcoming nature. I do take issue with your contrasting “academicians” with “tax-paying blue collar workers.” I worked my way through York College full-time at a York factory (YORK Label) before attempting to pursue an academic career. I am not a professor yet—I am a lowly graduate student. And yes, they still tax our measly stipends. And I’m confident that when I’m a professor I will still have to pay taxes too!

What a surprise that the YDR editoral staff wrecked a perfectly decent writer's material. I do agree with you that D.C. is just too far away for a commute from York, although alot (100's do that drive who live in the suburbs and southern end of the county. Of course with gas on the rise, it is problematic if that can continue.
Have you seen the stream of comments attched to your original article?
The link to Baltimore of York's is quite a strong one. A successful mass-transit system would certainly help York City, but Lord, there are so many other problems the city has to work out, that I now wonder if the place can be retrieved. My neighborhood's concern is that the rot doesn't contiune to radiate outward. Many would say that is inevitable , and our neighborhood has tried to be pro-active in its defense, but we are getting NO assistance from our own Township's board. Any suggestions to get a fire under them?

This discussion has been quite interesting. Although I don't live in York, my entire extended family lives there and so I visit there a couple of times a year. My wife and I hope to retire to the York area when my military career is over and we take a keen interest in the York community. I wonder if York (city and county) has thought of pursuing any other urban renewal efforts. Omaha, Nebraska has a very nice zoo that is tremendously popular and continues to grow. San Antonio has developed the Riverwalk that is lined with restaurants and hotels, and is a block away from the city convention center. These are just a couple examples how other cities with declining urban areas have attacked the problem.

It has been most frustrating to watch York's powers-that-be stumble around for ways to keep York alive. On the other hand, had much of that not been done, the core of the county would be in a situation I'd not even like to think about.
Still, there seems to be no way to get these people to THINK and see the big picture, and part of that, very unfortunately, is that York's power base is still primarily concerned with retaining their own power and not opening up to ideas from outsiders.
For instance, if you want to look at projects that will really make you laugh and cry simultaneously, check out York's versions of TND's. They are not even recognizable as such after they've been "York'ed," ie, dumbed down so that the developers are the only ones who benefit from the plastic-clad dumpings they call "townhouses." It is a shame.
Oh, touching upon San A.'s Riverwalk, if I recall, that project is now over 60 years old, and York still can't figure out that the creekside could be used effectively for things other than flood control.

Interesting points from all and a very emotionally charged and multi-dimensional topic.

I formerly lived in York, having lived in DC, and have recently returned. I am one of thousands each day who trek to Baltimore in order to make a living. Joashua, I can imagine that is a hectic commute, especially if one has to also take Metro into DC as well.

The dynamics of the York-Baltimore relationship, so to speak has been a very interesting observation over the last 20 years. from my own personal experience, people moving up here from Baltimore is nothing new. In fact, I know folks from Baltimore who have been in the York area for almost 20 years. It was more or less 10 years ago when large numbers of people began moving into Souther York County, thus starting the "Us" Vs. 'Them" mindset.

Frankly, the huge influx of people from surrounding areas, especially Baltimore should be no surprise. Given York's ideal and strategic location on the map and it's accessibility to other major urban areas. It's no wonder people want to live here. Plus, you still have the advantages of city life and that of a serene and quiet rural setting.

I definitely concurr with what Ex-city kid stated regarding new ideas for improving the city to make it attractive. It's the insular and closed minded thinking from many in York that have prevented it from becoming the dynamic place it could be. Maybe constructive input and feedback from "outsiders" is what may be required to propell York forward.

Maybe a huge influx and infusion of people from the "outside" is probably what it will take to re-invent not only York itself, but the county as a whole.